No Firearms Signs Poll
December 7th, 2007 by Syd
Another tragic multiple victim shooting has occurred in a “gun-free zone,” the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Nebraska. Nebraska has recently adopted shall-issue concealed carry, but the Westroads Mall is among the business that have chosen to deny the civil rights of their customers by posting “No Firearms” signs, thereby prohibiting law-abiding concealed carry license holders from carrying their self-defense firearms in their mall. The result of this misguided policy was tragically predictable.
How do you respond to these “no firearms” signs. Please take the poll below, and if you have additional comments, post them in the comments.
From the Constitution of the United States:
ARTICLE VI
“This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof… shall be the Supreme Law Of The Land…”
Supreme Law Of The Land - that obviously and undeniably supercedes a “no guns allowed” sign posted by some schmendrick at the mall.
Therefore, I regard such signs with the same regard that I have for the slip of paper inside a fortune cookie. Neither has any relevance whatsoever in my life.
Some day, a deranged maniac is going to start shooting people in a mall that has a “no guns allowed” sign. A private citizen who is carrying a weapon in disregard of the sign is goint to kill the gunman, saving an untold number of lives.
Then what?? What will the antigun bigots have to say? What will The Sheeple think? Will they at last wake up to the fact that private citizens who carry guns save lives?
some will, some won’t. Some will continue to lie and deny reality.
Some people refuse to reason - some dare not reason:
“He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.”
- William Drummond
When I lived in Va, a CCP state the very anti-gun manager of a store I worked at was going to put a no firearms allowed sign on our front door. I suggested that he also put a sign up that said “welcome all armed robbers” He changed his mind.
I ignore these signs like they aren’t there.
Im old and my eyes are bad. I dont see those signs. I cant even aim my pistol with the sights, I dont need to. I have LASER sights on my .45 cal 1911 !
YAHOO !
In Hardtargets scenario he forgets what will happen to the citizen who takes out the BG. In the liberal gun control world the Brady bunch will ensure that his CCP is revoked and he will never be able to carry legally again. He will be proclaimed to the world by the drive-by media as, “see what happens when we let civilians carry guns, we need more gun control”
Private property, which the mall is - no matter how you look at it, is under the control, desires and wishes of the owner. It is not “public property” as many feel. Many of the people who would ignore those signs would be the first to throw someone off of their own property if that person didn’t obey their wishes.
Unfortunate, but that’s the way it is. “When in my house …”
No dumb sign will ever replace a persons right not to be a victim. Just because a person is not on “public property” does not mean you’ve lost the RIGHT of LIFE LIBERTY and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINES, therefor the right of self defense. As for those signs, BULLSHIT!
To the 4 percenters who said “I’m law enforcement and I take my gun wherever I please. ”
And you can use that firearm to defend your life, the lives of your loved ones and your property and but I shouldn’t?
Who the F**K are YOU?
I take my gun everywhere and anywhereI go, even to church. Maybe if some CCW citizen was there he may have been able to take out that son of a bitch and likewise the bastard at the University of Virginia.
I’m sorry, but I’m a bit oblivious and don’t notice signs on mall doors. Are you kidding, I am always armed in the mall. I’m affraid it would take a lot of armed people at a mall to stop a random shooter because what are your chances of being close enough to the shooter when trouble breaks out. If multiple people are armed, chances are much better that one of you will be close enough to the shooter to stop him before he kills a lot of people.
We all know that , if one of us had been there with a gun under concealed carry,this could have turned out a whole lot different. When are the anti’s going to realize,that there will be a next time?
I can actually read, and I pay attention to warning notices.
If a property is posted as a victim disarmament zone, I shop elsewhere.
IMHO, it’s better to spend money with people who don’t believe that their unarmed guards can keep me safe.
Let your money do the talking. While I’ve never been there, I’m quite sure that there are a number of businesses in the area that welcome armed citizens as customers.
If my anti-assault tool is not welcome, neither is my hard-earned cash. The Arizona Civilian Defense League has designed business cards (downloadable from our website, azcdl.org ). Encountering a ‘designated victim zone’ sign on a business I cannot in good conscience patronize, I politely ask to see the owner or manager, hand him one, and offer an ‘explanation’. I then insure any and all of my rights-exercising acquaintances and associates learn of the policy, and somehow 30 or 40 or 60 ‘just happen to be in the neighborhood’, all with the same card.
One or two people saying something to the proprietor may just roll off his back, people who say nothing - whether they patronize the business or not - have NO EFFECT, but those cards piling up atop the register and no money going in it have managed to ‘loosen the glue’ on a few of those signs.
This approach has a few advantages: It shatters prejudices, as polite, well-spoken individuals aren’t the ‘gun nuts’ we’ve been painted as by the lamestream media; there’s tangible evidence of the income lost by posting those signs; and the removal of such signs serves as an indication the ‘armed and stupid’ would do well to find ’softer’ potential targets and more docile victims.
At certain malls here in town, the anchor stores do not have the signs, but the other entrances do, I make sure to enter and exit through the entrances with no signs posted as the state law requires that all entrances be posted.
I see these “no guns allowed” signs as an invitation to stay away, and spend my money elsewhere. If I have the opportunity I inform the management of this fact and leave a “No Guns = No Money” card, available from Ohioans for Concealed Carry, Inc. (www.ohioCCW.org). The only time I enter an establishment posted “no guns” is if I absolutely must, and there is no safer alternative (e. g. courthouse, hospital).
Interested persons can also obtain ” NO-Gun= NO MONEY Cards to carry in your wallet, with an extra to give to the managers of such stores, or owners of such malls from GunsSaveLife( www.GunsSaveLife.com)
Fortunately, in my state (SC) the law is very specific on what the sign must look like in order to be valid. It’s rare to find a legal sign.
In fact, I don’t think I’ve seen one, yet. When I do I plan on letting them know that I won’t be giving them my business and hoping to provide them with a little logic about why the sign is a bad thing.
In my CWP class, we were told that some businesses intentionally put up invalid signs. This allows licensed people to still carry while giving the fraidy cats some peace of mind.
If I understand my state’s law, if a private business posts “No Weapons” signs, entering that private business is NOT a crime, but the business owner prevent the armed citizen from entering or ask them to leave if on the premises…
The signs have no force of law unless they meet the signage required by some states. As it is the property owner can ask you to leave and if you refuse you are then trespassing. That you can be arrested for.
My question, however is, “How would they know you were/are armed if your felony protection is concealed?”
I take my business elsewhere, voting with my dollars and my feet whenever I see a sign saying I’m not welcome. Sometimes I’ll mail a letter politely explaining why they don’t earn money from me, my coworkers, my gunclub members, etc. none of whom have ever committed a crime despite carrying continuously for decades.
Some folks I know simply ignore the signs. They’ve told me they say to themselves, “Concealed means concealed so nobody will ever know unless the worst happens. I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.” In our state, they risk misdemeanor tresspassing charges but only if they are discovered, are asked to leave, and refuse (at which point they violate the property owner’s rights).
Vote Freedom First.
In Arizona, getting caught ignoring such a sign will result in being asked to leave the premises. Failing to do so is a misdemeanor trespassing violation, not a weapons charge, so I imagine many with CCW permits do ignore them and are never noticed.
If I were a victim or family member of someone shot in a victim disarmament zone I would sue the living daylights out of the owners of the establishment because, by preventing me from protecting myself, they have taken on that responsibility–and failed!
Keep in mind that the Constitution protects us from the government limiting our rights, it does not protect us from others trying to do so. That’s something that has to be worked out in civil court. Private property rights versus individual rights will remain an ongoing battle. I agree with those that say the best place to hit them is in the pocketbook by taking your business elsewhere.
I had rather be judge by 12 than carried by 6
I do not, nor shall I, patronize ‘volunteer victim’ establishments.
If the establishment is overt and active in their enforcement of this misguided policy I ‘vote with my feet’. If it is just a sign I politely ignore same and go about my business and leave.
There is an increasing likelihood of an increase in such slaughter as we saw this week in Omaha. It can, and probably will, happen again and nobody, not the wisest among us, knows when, where or why. All we can do is be prepared.
A co-worker asked me after Omaha if, had I been there, would I have ‘run toward the gunfire’. I said, “Absolutely not. That’s not what a CCW license is for. It is to allow me to protect me, and others, in IMMEDIATE danger. I’d have exited, stage right, just as fast as possible UNLESS the shooter was in my vicinity and it was prudent for me to take action.
Have a day.
Bang Gunley
I’ll remove the sign before my gun. Keep in mind your violating the law & a “bad shoot” will really go against you and your family. Good shoot & the world loves you, well….
Bo, If only it stopped after being judge by 12. Civil Rights, Civil Suits and uncivil neighbors, yeah it’s all about the money. Your whole family suffers either way, your damned (figuratively).
Let me decide, not someone who isn’t there.
“Concealed means concealed so nobody will ever know unless the worst happens. I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.”
If somthing happen to me when a mad man shoot the living out in the mall with “No Firearms “sign ,I will I will hire the best freaking lawyer in the US to sue the living out of the mall, and the greedy owners, who put money first,and make sure they go bankrupt and cannot open another mall to make money peroid. Anti gun group try to make us paid,this is time to paid us back.
I go on line to get my stuff now, it is easier than the mall, I’m safer at home.
If for some chance I do go out, on a date, to a movie, grocery store, I don’t care about any signs. If the place is open to the public, I’ll be armed.
Now, Law biding citizens should be out rite now in our communities looking for copycat offenders. Two shootings in a 1 week period means something. Go freely, go armed and go by the grace of God.
Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah
I typically walk right past said signs without regard since it’s pretty unlikely that anyone will ever know what I have on my person or not. I can and DO excersize my right to carry a defensive weapon anywhere I see fit, even in places where I am specifically told that I cannot. Unless I am careless with my firearm (which simply doesn’t happen) then I am not hurting anyone and it’s no one’s business what’s in my pocket. The way I see it, there are only three ways in which another person will determine that I am carrying. 1.) I choose to tell them — This is obviously not going to happen especially in a location where it is posted as prohibited. 2.) I am searched by law enforcement after giving probable cause to do so — This is not likely also since I am typically not a trouble making draw attention to myself kind of guy. 3.) I use my firearm in self defense or in the defense of others. — In this scenario I could care less what issue anyone takes to my disregard of their sign since the alternative would be for me to be another statistic in the headlines. My comment to those people who consider this unlawful and remind me that private owner’s have the ‘right’ to deny my ‘right’, I will simply fall back to the tire but true “I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6″
I now fall in the group of Law Enforcement Officers but in the past when I did not I left the store and contacted the owner or manager by mail or email and VERY politely informed him(her) that it was unsafe to shop in their store and I would return when they made it reasonably safe. I still tend to boycott such stores because it is more dangerous to those of us who can legally carry there.
In Georgia the signs mean nothing. If caught with a weapon the owner can ask you to either disarm or leave, and if you don’t then you can be cited for Trespass.
There is a distinct advantage to Concealed Carry.
I really hope a suit will be generated by the Omaha Mall victims based on the sign of no firearms. The sign may’ve been a liability to the owner/operators by the sign’s implication of “no weapons allowed” message and that “we will protect you when you shop here” chant. But no armed and trained guards present during the massacre… I’d reckon some bright attorney will be soliciting signatures from kin of the victims regarding unfulfilled promises.
From that we may have to consider the Israeli concept of installing metal detectors at the entry points of stores/malls churches that actually have trained armed guard required. Similar concept as their presence in airports in most european terminals. We have gotten a pass on this(to this point) and the people that can’t accept seeing an HK or Beretta machine pistol displayed by the guards may have to call for grocery deliveries rather than picking them up at the store. Another lesson of “we ain’t in Kansas anymore”. Two Dogs