Newbies and the Snubnose, Redux
April 5th, 2009 by Syd
Xavier nails it on the snubnose:
I loaded the snubnose revolver for Frieda, and she aligned the sights.
She struggled to pull the trigger back, and when the little revolver finally barked, it almost leapt from her hands. She looked at me in astonishment. She looked back at her target, and trembled as she began to pull off another round. Bam! A look of genuine concern crossed her face.
"You don’t have to keep shooting it," I told her. "We can unload it."
"Good," she replied. All too often when a woman enters a gun store to purchase a gun, they are met with ignorance if not outright condescension. Over and over I have met women who purchased a snubnose revolver as their first handgun. The only reason I can fathom for this is a salesman wanting to make a sale, and him knowing that the female new to shooting, will go for the smaller gun.
Frieda had fallen into that trap. Unfortunately, the snubnose revolver is one of the most difficult handguns to shoot well. The long, often heavy double action trigger combined with the short sight radius make it a challenge for experienced shooters. For a person in the learning stages, the trigger, sight radius and recoil are a recipe for failure and frustration. A cold range was called, and we went out to put up new targets…
Read the Whole Thing Here
You know I love the snubbies. I may have another gun, but I always have my snubnose. Nevertheless, and I have been saying this for a long time, the snubnose is not the ideal gun for new shooters and it drives me crazy when gun shop clerks automatically put inexperienced women into snubbies. That is a terrible way to start out a new shooter. The snubnose wasn’t my first handgun and it shouldn’t be yours.
However, if you are just dead set on buying a snub gun for your first handgun, I would suggest a nice heavy one like a S&W 640 with a full-sized grip. A good grip on a snubnose revolver makes a huge difference in the level of comfort you will experience when practicing with it.
My second gun was a snub nose, primarily because I could handle the grip. Being female my hands are small and I cannot comfortably operate many pistols. (The first was a low quality semi automatic that jammed every magazine, live and learn).
I did ask the clerk about the grip since it my pinky was not involved in the grip, “people get used to it.” I did go to a range with an instructor who helped me. I _knew_ that like many things it would take time and practice. Even got some snap caps to practice tight grip and not dropping the sight. Am I bullseyeing every round? Not yet, but I will. My first goal was to get used the recoil and operating it and the muscle memory. By the time my CCW comes through I will be able to do that.
I love my snubby now.
I bought a snubbie a couple of years ago. I already had a number of semi-autos and a 4″ S&W M19. The M19 had a trigger as smooth as glass.
I now have three revolvers. The M19, a M442 snubbie, and a 2 1/2″ M13. I suppose the M13 qualifies as a snubbie although it’s half again larger than the M442.
My wife and I have spent a number of days at the range with nothing but revolvers. I have some pics posted on my blog showing her shooting the M13.
She loves my revolvers. She has difficulty racking the slides of my semi-auto. When she finally decides to get a CCW, I’ll have to buy another M442 because mine will disappear into her purse.
BTW, she also is a bit of a recoil junking. She likes to shoot my M13 using .357mag ammo. I keep the M13 loaded with 158gr JSP as a car gun. My wife can shoot that as long as the ammo last. Every female is different. If the lady in Xavier’s post had started with a light .38 load, her reaction may have been different.
Not knocking the snubbies in any way, I carried a Chief for a long time, but I have HUGE hands, I can wrap nearly all the way around my XD-45…
I have a really hard time with a small grip and a bigger grip, in my opinion, makes the benefits of a snubbie a lot less attractive…
I wonder?? Can I get a 2.5″ barrel on a Model 29?
Not only do female new shooters get steered to snubbies, but they aren’t given good information about ammunition, and end up with hard-kicking loads with which to practice, not knowing that carry ammunition and practice ammunition can be two very different things.
Nevertheless, and I have been saying this for a long time, the snubnose is not the ideal gun for new shooters and it drives me crazy when gun shop clerks automatically put inexperienced women into snubbies.
i say the same about Glocks. i keep seeing people recommend them for first-time shooters, and i always feel it’s a bad suggestion.
They made a Model 29 with a 2″ barrel once upon a time. They are lovely revolvers. I have fired one with .44 Special and I would love to add one to the collection. The problem with them is that they are really large and heavy. If I am going to haul around that much weight, I want more than six shots, something like a 1911 or an XD.
If you buy into the scenario that a time is approaching when all semi-auto pistols may be banned for non-LEO civilians, (a scenario that I’m not totally convinced about), I think the more practical carry option for revolvers will be something in the .357 family.
Syd, I got the .357 part covered too, just not snubs.. A 686 w/4″ and a 28 w/6″
And I agree about the weight thing, I was more or less being obnoxious, imagine that, ME being obnoxious… I can conceal my XD better than most folks can a Chief…
But, I do like my revolvers too…
Exactly… I have heard folks sing the praises of a *cough, cough, spit, spit* Glock as a starter gun.
This is purely personal for me but I would recommend a Glock as a sinker on a trot line, but that’s only if you can’t find something else to use…
Syd, I owe you a debt of gratitude. My first pistol was a 1911. Through your website I learned volumes of info about this make of gun. Then I got a Smith & Wesson .38 special Airweight #642 snubnose for carry purposes and again I learned volumes from your website.
What really made the difference in shooting ability for me with the snubnose was getting Hogue Monogrips for it. With the original grips I could not hold the gun easily or shoot it very well due to the size of my hands (fairly large) and the arthritis that I am starting to experience (I am over 60 years old). The Hogue Monogrips give me a fatter surface to grip and enough extra length to allow for my little finger to grip as well. The difference in shooting ability was like night and day. With the original Uncle Mike grips I couldn’t come close to hitting a target at 25 yards. Now I can hit a 10 inch target at 25 yards…..not precision shooting but I am satisfied with it from my little carry gun. The extra width and length added by the Hogue grips really don’t affect concealment very much. I carry in a pocket holster and always buy pants with correct pockets that conform to my gun.
Thanks again Syd for all your knowledge.
I believe Tamara K recently said something about this issue as well.
I will stick to my guns when I say that the perfect first handgun for anyone is a .22. Because a .22 + tuna cans = FUN! Any shooter who just has a blast on the first time out will be back, over and over again.
I agree that a snub isn’t a good first gun. However, women often like the trigger reach of a snub. Taurus now has a 6shot j-frame. I think if smith and wesson made 6shot j-frame with a 3- 4inch barrel and full length grips would be ultimate lady revolver.
Too bad I didn’t find this websit before I went to a gun store and bought my first gun. I wanted protection and to get a concealed carry license so I took the clerk’s advice and bought a S&W 640 Lady Smith I think it is called. I did not fire it and inally I signed up for license class and after the exam this weekend the class all went to the gun range to do the shooting test. Everyone else had automatics, I had the only revolver. After five rounds, my hand hurt and shook. After five more the web between my thumb and index finger was bleeding. I had to fire 50 rounds. I made 231 our of perfect 250 score but I was miserable. I have ice on my right hand today to reduce the swelling and am typing with only my left hand. The best thing I learned on your websit is NEVER take the advice of a gun clerk. Any woman who gets a S&W 640 as a first gun will probably never fire a gun again.
Barbara in Houston
I have just on into a Smith and Wesson .38 Chiefs Special model 36. Could you connect me with info on the price range of this gun?
Barbara:
I think the gun you have is a S&W 642 Ladysmith Airweight. As far as I know, the S&W 640 doesn’t have a Ladysmith version. The 640 is made out of stainless steel, which makes it a lot easier to shoot than the 642.
In my experience, taking advice from the men behind the gun store counter is a bad idea. Unless they have a background in competitive shooting, gun store clerks are almost universally shockingly ill-informed on the topics of shooting technique and firearm safety. Their primary concern is making the sale, but it’s not all their fault. A friend of mine works behind the counter and was doing a better job of it. New shooters were coming back to his store and making their gun purchase there because of him. Unfortunately, he was told by his management to stop taking the time to explain things to his customers.
I agree with the opinion that a snubby is not the ideal first gun for new shooters, but it isn’t necessarily a complete disaster either. A woman who took my concealed carry permit course with the S&W 642 with laser grips her husband had bought her did extremely well with it. By the end of the course of fire, she did, however, have a bruise in the web of her hand. Just like Syd, I recommend the S&W 640 as a snubby because it is made out of stainless steel. The steel is denser than the aluminum alloy used for the 642. The extra weight makes the gun harder to carry, but a LOT easier to shoot. Once someone is proficient with the 640 and wants something easier to carry, they can add a 642 to their carry gun rotation.
I do not agree, however, with the opinion that a Glock is not an ideal first gun for new shooters. Glock, XD and M&P semi-automatics in 9 mm are reliable, simple to operate, relatively cheap to shoot, and light enough to carry but still heavy enough to shoot comfortably. I use a .22 conversion kit for the first few magazines, and then switch to 9 mm. So far, all of my new shooters that wanted to try a semi-automatic have loved it.
I will, at the risk of offending a lot of people’s favorite gun, reveal what I have universally found to be poor choices for new shooters: any handgun with a traditional double action trigger mechanism. This includes S&Ws, SIGs, Berettas, Bersas, Walthers and Rugers. The added complexity of having to master TWO trigger pulls and an extra button is just not helpful to the new shooter.