The Second Gun
November 18th, 2007 by Syd
At the last session with Jim Higginbotham, we were doing the “tactical reload with retention” and I asked, “What if you are carrying a five-round gun and you have fired three rounds in a confrontation – should you reload at that point?” His answer was simple, “You go to your second gun.” The logic is hard to argue with. A second gun gives you more firepower and the New York reload is faster than even a speed reload on an auto, so I have been carrying a brace of
j-frames: the Model 60 strong side in the Galco Concealable and the 642 cross-draw in a Gould & Goodrich belt holster, plus a speed-loader in my right front pocket. I don’t know if I will keep doing this, but here are the results of the experiment.
Pros:
- I feel much better armed. The additional firepower is an asset. My biggest gripe with the j-frame has always been, and remains, firepower.
- I am following the guru’s advice which feels good.
- Helps to justify all the money I have invested in revolvers.
- The backup gun is easier to access than the primary while seated in a car with a seatbelt on.
- I could access the backup gun with my left hand in the event that my right arm might be injured.
Cons:
- Two guns to worry about concealing.
- Two holsters and one cell phone is getting the belt back into the “Batman Utility Belt” range for bulk.
- Weight is nearly that of a service auto and spare mag, not quite but close. Begs the question of why not carry a service auto.
Whether this configuration becomes the ticket or not, the second gun concept has a lot of value. If one gun runs dry or is disabled, you have a backup. If you lose control of your primary, you have a fall-back position. A second gun can be handed off to an unarmed ally in an emergency. The “New York Reload” (drawing the second gun) is always faster than any reload, and we have proven that time and again.
The non-law enforcement armed citizen may look at the second gun concept and judge, “That’s just too much hardware to pack around.” Everybody has to make their own threat assessment for themselves. For law enforcement officers and armed security personnel, I would call the second gun absolutely mandatory.
Hmmm, I’d heard it was called a ‘Texas reload’. Just checked Google & “New York reload’ gets more hits. Guess I’ll have to change my terminology!
Good article. I think the heavier weight is on the pro side of the equation. I always feel better when I have a back-up, even the little NAA is better than nothing. I agree, for the LEO’s and Security people, absolutely necessary o carry two guns. For we civilians, it’s still a good idea. If you never need the second gun, all well and good. But if you do, nothing else will suffice.
Good job on the article.
I normally carry a Kimber Ultra Carry + 2 mags, but I also usually have a KelTec 380 in my right front pocket along with 2 mags in the left rear. Not much extra weight for a backup. The UC is usually in a tuckable holster, as are its mags.
What I’ve found is that, when it’s hard to conceal the 45 without a coat, I can leave it in a coat pocket. Even if I have to take the coat off, I’m still armed. (Just have to watch what I do with the coat, however……)
As a matter of course, I use a 5-shooter myself and carry a Safariland speed loader and/or speed-strip. I have to admit that the idea of two guns makes sense over speed reloading. So-called speed reloading, especially where a revolver is concerned, is a difficult skill to master (while under pressure) and one that is easily lost without much practice. Moreover, it can be a menace with certain bullet configurations such as wadcutters (i.e. “safe-stop” types) or semi-wadcutters (CPD/FBI Load).
Conversely, I do have to assert that I do not comprehend the logic in carrying two 5-shooters. Should one necessitate, or feel the necessity, to carry two handguns a higher capacity primary weapon would be in order no?
Perhaps a pistol akin to say a Glock 19, 15-round magazine capacity I believe, would be a better primary choice. Lest we forget that, a G19 type pistol is probably just as easy to conceal as well, then, if need be, the J-frame as a backup to that.
As an aside here, was the carrying of two pistols originally referred to as a “brace”? This was, I believe, common practice is the pre and early metallic cartridge days. As a youngster, the “old timers” would call them “back-ups” or by the more sinister moniker “drop gun”. I was wondering how Texas and New York seem to keep getting things named after them….
Bottom line is two handguns are better than one and faster also.
Take Care and Stay Safe,
Ken (kilogulf59)
NRA Member and Administrator: Integrated Close Combat Forum
My primary (usually my Glock 36 or 19) goes on the strong side either in or out depending on weather and clothing and a Kel-Tec P3AT goes in the left front pocket in an Uncle Mike’s pocket holster with an extra mag and a flashlight. It’s so lightand compact I sometimes forget I have it.
No matter the pistol(s), you must practice drawing and shooting either even with a seat belt on. Have an empty wallet handy to “accidently drop” when drawing either. It may give you enough time to out play an armed bad guy. If legal, put one pistol in between the seat and console that is quickly accessible while in a seat belt. Move it to concealed when necessary. Keep your doors locked at all times and when getting gassed up at service stations, keep the other 3 doors locked or all 4 locked but by all means, keep a spare key tied to your belt by a boot string and in your pocket. That extra key has saved me many times when I locked my door and found the keys on the seat.
Drop-gun is not sinister unless you are confident that you will never make a mistake. Read Bill Jordan’s NO SECOND PLACE WINNER for a further explanantion. Also, a ‘drop’ might not be the sort of pistol to be fully relied upon as a back-up. A ‘brace’ generally refers to an identical or lvery similar pair. So, two mules is a brace, as is two partridges, two service pistols, etc.
I relate well to McGraw on the spare keys. I always have a spare in my wallet, but the shoelace idea is probably nearly fail-safe. I could also carry on on my dog-tag chain, I guess.
My usual primary is either a Centennial or an short grip Agent, depending on which pants I,m wearing. My back-up is an assisted opening Benchmade. Sometimes I add a Baby Browning, with which I can usually hit a bowling pin @ 15 yards or so. Unfortunately, the pin takes a while to fall — kind of bleeds out, you know.
My preference for a #1 pistol, though, is a Government model or a Commander. I also am very fond of large caliber revolvers. Unfortunately, my lilfe and work environment means a pocket carry is usually required.
‘Bye for now!
We here in New Mexico can only agree in terms of wishful thinking. Printed right on our Concealed Hangun License is the restriction that “only one concealed hangun may be carried”. Unfortunately, those armed folks who visit us with CCW’s valid here must also comply.
The good news is that we have a strong pre-emption act that basically states: No City, County, or other entity can make or enforce any firearm posession or carry laws OTHER than State law.
Add to this that, in this State, a person’s vehicle (termed “personal conveyance”) is an extension of one’s private property (just like your home) and you may carry as many loaded firearms hidden anywhere you like, without anyone’s permission. The term personal conveyance is not limited to car, RV, or truck but also covers motorcycle, bicycle and horse.
Bottom line: While in or on your personal conveyance in New Mexico, one is not subject to CCW laws.
Personally, i think the “Welcome to New Mexico” signs should add the phrase “Pack ‘em if you got ‘em”
Be well
Unless one is employed in a law enforcement capacity, I think that carrying two guns is overkill. The exception would be living in a large city such as Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, New York, etc. The average gunfight is over in less then a minute and usually at a distance of 4.5 to 7 feet. If five shots are not enough to stop an assilant then more time at the range is needed. If attacked by multiple assailants then another magazine or an additional gun would be lifesaving.
I live in a safe city after moving here from Los Angeles and maybe my paranoia has been reduced because I have been here so long–sixteen years. Instead of carrying two guns, I have a Glock 9mm pocket gun. It holds ten + one and if that is not enough in a gunfight then I should consider leaving my gun at home. The Glock will shoot 1″ groups at thirty feet and with practice and holding one finger on the trigger guard for a firm grip (I have large hands) the gun is accurate and easily held on target. I would not want to be in a gunfight with a pistol at a distance greater then thirty feet.
I try not to allow myself to be in a position where the location or my lack of alertness would mark me as an easy victim. The purpose of packing is to stop a deadly force attack on me; it is not to capture Walmart robbers or stop a robbery in progress. With todays sue happy public, I am not anxious to have my hard earned dollars in someone elses pocket because some judge decides that I should not have used deadly force or entered the fray.
SYD, JUST ABOVE THIS POST, IS ONE FROM ( ALAN ) THAT KINDA BOTHERS ME ! ALAN IS WORRIED ABOUT HIS ( HARD EARNED DOLLARS ), BECAUSE SOME DUMB JUDGE ( MOST OF THEM CARY !!! ) DECIDES YOU SHOULD HAVE NOT ( NOT USED DEADLY FORCE OR PRAY TELL ( ENTERED THE FRAY ). WELL ALLAN, BY ( ENTERING THE FRAY you or someone else should already ( know ) when deadly forCE IS NEEDED & REQUIRED TO SAVE YOU OR YOURS… AM I GOING TO JUST ( STANDBY ) WHEN SOME FELON OR BAD GUY IS TRYING TO KILL YOU OR ( YOUR ) FAMILY, JUST BECAUSE I AM AFRAID OF SOME JUDGE OR BY YOUR STANDARDS, NOT WANTING TO USE MY PRECIOUS, HARD EARNED DOLLARS, ??? ( THEY MAKE IT EVERY DAY !!! ) & OH, BY THE WAY, YOUR OWN FIVE SHOT THEORY, THAT FIVE IS ENOUGH, WELL YOU SHOULD EITHER STUDY UP, OR HAVE BEEN A POLICE OFFICER, WHERE FIVE SHOTS ON MULTIPLE TARGETS, IS NOT EVEN A START, NO MATTER HOW LONG YOU SPEND ON THE RANGE !!! THIS WOULD BE CLOSE QUARTERS COMBACT, NOT JUST PUNCHING HOLES IN A ( PAPER ) TARGET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I SURE HOPE YOU RE-CONSIDER YOUR POSITION, OR MAYBE JUST ( NOT CARRY ) IN THE FIRST PLACE !!! RESPECTFULLY, GUNNER ( RETIRED CHIEF OF POLICE !!! )
ALAN, IF YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT SO MANY THINGS WHEN YOU CARRY, THEN MY ADVISE FOR YOU IS TO ( NOT CARRY ) IN THE 1st PLACE !!! YOU WORRY ABOUT SOME JUDGE, WHO INCIDENTLY MOST CARRY ( TO PROTECT THEIR SELVES OR MAYBE THEIR FAMILY, & PEOPLE LIKE YOU , WHO SOUNDS TO ME THAT ( YOU ) WORRY ABOUT EVERYTHING, BUT THE CORRECT THINGS…( YOU ) SHOULD ” ALREADY ” KNOW AS TO WHEN OR WHERE YOU HAVE TO USE DEADLY FORCE, OR ( GETTING INTO THE FRAY ) IS THE WAY YOU PUT IT..IF YOU ARE PERSONALLY AFRAID OF ALL THESE THINGS, & OH, SPENDING YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY, I BELIEVE YOU SAID, THEN WHY DON”T YOU JUST CARRY A STICK & PUT ( YOUR OR YOUR FAMILY ) IN THE CAPABLE HANDS OF SOMEONE, WHO IS NOT WORRIED ABOUT JUDGES, MONEY & WHATEVER ELSE YOU SAID… OH, & BY THE WAY, FIVE ( 5 ) SHOTS ARE BARELY A BEGINNER IN A GUN FIGHT JUST ASK SOME TROOPER WHO HAS MULTIBLE ASSAILANTS TO DEAL WITH, ALL AT ONCE, WHO HAS BEEN IN ONE, WITH A 10-15 SHOT AUTO & MAYBE JUST BARELY MADE IT OUT, EVEN WITH ALL THE VERY FAST RE-LOADS !!! PLEASE GET AWAKE & STAY ALIVE ALAN & PROTECT YOUR OWN FAMILY !!! SORRY, BUT HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE SAYING( I WOULD MUCH RATHER ANSWER TO TWELVE ( A JURY ) THAN BE CARRIED BY SIX ( IN YOUR COFFIN ) ??? VERY OLD & EXTREMELY GOOD ADVISE I WISH YOU ONLY THE BEST & ( ALWAYS ) BE PREPARED TO TAKE CARE OF YOU & YOURS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RESPECTFULLY, GUNNER ( RETIRED CHIEF OF POLICE & VIETNAM, TWO TOUR COMBACT VETERN )
DUTCH, I JUST LOVE YOU NEW MEXICO ATTITUDE, ( PACK EM, IF YOU GOT THEM )I HAVE BEEN TO YOUR NECK OF THE WOODS MANY,MANY TIMES & THE FOLKS & THE COUNTRY OUT THERE ARE JUST WONDERFUL !!! TRULY WISH I COULD LIVE THERE NOW….. RESPECTFULLY, GUNNER
#9, Alan wrote, “Unless one is employed in a law enforcement capacity, I think that carrying two guns is overkill. The exception would be living in a large city such as Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, New York, etc. The average gunfight is over in less then a minute and usually at a distance of 4.5 to 7 feet. If five shots are not enough to stop an assilant then more time at the range is needed. If attacked by multiple assailants then another magazine or an additional gun would be lifesaving.
I live in a safe city after moving here from Los Angeles and maybe my paranoia has been reduced because I have been here so long–sixteen years. Instead of carrying two guns, I have a Glock 9mm pocket gun. It holds ten + one and if that is not enough in a gunfight then I should consider leaving my gun at home. The Glock will shoot 1″ groups at thirty feet and with practice and holding one finger on the trigger guard for a firm grip (I have large hands) the gun is accurate and easily held on target. I would not want to be in a gunfight with a pistol at a distance greater then thirty feet. ”
I live in as safe an area as you could possible ask for. I am in Amish country in PA. There are farms all around me. The worst crime here is cow tipping by high school pranksters. So, why mention this? The safest area in the country to me (my area) will forever be remembered by the Nickel Mines School hostage shooting. Living in a safe area does not reduce your requirement for protection. It may reduce the frequency of needing it, but when needed, it is as critacal as if you lived in the Bronx.